Interview with IIPC Founder and President Waldo Vieira, M.D.

This article, named “Journey to the Stars” was originally printed in the May/June, 1996 issue (Vol. 2, No. 9) of Tropical magazine, by Teresa Pinto in Manhattan, NY.

The incessant search to understand the mystery of how life began is not relegated to the modern world. As far back as 2,500 years ago, the first Greek philosophers challenged mythological explanations and began to look for logical answers to the question: “Of what is the world made?” Pythagoras addressed the issue using mathematics. Plato and Socrates used rational idealism. Heraclitus concluded that the world is made of fire. Werner Heisenberg, one of the greatest physicists of the twentieth century, wrote in his book Physicists and Philosophy: “If we substitute the word fire with energy, we can otherwise cite Heraclitus word for word…. “Energy is the substance with which all things are made, and it is energy that moves them’ “.

According to Waldo Vieira, sixty-four-year-old Brazilian physician, researcher, medium, we can reach other dimensions and achieve answers to many of our questions through the use of bioenergy exercises. The experience of taking an interplanetary trip by leaving and returning to our body is much more beneficial than using spaceships for the same task. Dr. Vieira, conscious projector or out-of-body experiencer (OBEr) since nine years of age, founded the International Institute of Projectiology and Conscientiology and is constructing the Center of Higher Studies of Consciousness in Iguacu Falls, Parana, Brazil – a location that serves as one of the planetary chakras. The center will include a university campus and condominium for students of the subject. Its structures will have a futuristic architecture aimed towards facilitated energy movement. The orientation for the realization of the project was obtained in multidimensional projections or OBEs.

This human dynamo has amassed one of the largest libraries on paranormal issues, containing over 63,000 items in 20 languages. Dr. Vieira espouses maxi-fraternity, universalism, the abolition of religion, demystification of God, guardian angels and reincarnation.

Q:When did you begin your library and how many books does it have?

WV: I began my library in 1941, when I was 9 years old. I don’t currently know the exact number of books in my library at the moment, as it is in transition. At last count, it had 63,000 items. On the out-of-body experience, I have over 5,000 works in 20 languages from 37 countries, and they are all catalogued. I have a great amount and variety of books on mysticism, religion, history and psychology. I have complete original collections on metaphysics from the last century – now called parapsychology – which I acquired at auctions. This reminds me of an amusing fact, speaking of auctions: in order to be admitted to auctions, I had to show that money was not a problem. So I would arrive in a limousine, dressed in Bermuda shorts in Los Angeles and would, in this way, be able to acquire rare collections. I learned this device at Universal Studios, where I took a related course. I have also taken courses in Japan, the Philippines, China…

What kind of courses were they?

WV. They were courses on psychology and personality. It is very important to study everything that has to do with human vanity. For example: Hollywood is addicted to physical appearance. To learn about this, I had to attend many parties. I spent time with groups of North-Americans, both in and out of the United States. This allowed me to have a better understanding of this culture. I gave many lectures and workshops to women’s groups: Business Women’s Clubs, Women’s Associations, etc…. The courses that I took at the Sakurai Clinic permitted me to speak about cosmetic science – plastic surgery that affects more than a person’s exterior appearance. I was the first Latin-American physician to use this technique in Brazil. Here in the United States, the use of this specialization was not permitted, because the Sakurai clinic did not wish to reveal the secret of its formulas to competent authorities. I opened a clinic in Copacabana that remained booked solid during the three years of its existence. I was invited to participate in television debates and interviews during that time. The greatest curiosity arose when I decided to close my office. No one understood that what led me to open it in the first place had been consciousness research. In the Philippines, I made forty-two short films on the paranormal processes. These films were produced by North-Americans. In this period, Tertuliano Pérsia and Aquipaua performed conventional, mediumistic and psychic surgery, sometimes using only their hands. This was the focus of some of my research.

Did your research require the use of white clothing?

WV. I needed to make my presence known. I did not want to hide myself. Thus, upon the suggestion of North-American producers and, given that I am a doctor, that I like wearing white, and because of my work with energy, this was the perfect color to choose, if I was to present very advanced topics. All this was done with the research process in mind.

Why was Iguacu Falls chosen for the installation of the Center of Higher Studies of Consciousness?

WV. At its current level of evolution, human life is an energetic and physical one. Iguacu Falls is one of the planetary chakras. The process of chakras is equal to that of the body’s energy meridians: we have phases that are better and others that are more ambiguous. Machu Picchu, for example, is a questionable locale. It has both positive and negative elements. Another very questionable place is Fernando de Noronha, in Brazil. Energetically speaking, Angra dos Reis, in Brazil, is awful; which contradicts all of its beauty. Another energetically horrible place is the Yucatan, in Mexico, around the pyramids – due to the great number of deaths that occurred in the area. The energetic process that we refer to as a “thosenic signature” (thosene represents the continually expressed and indissociable elements of thought, sentiment and energy) has remained in that place. It will take centuries to cleanse that energy. The human sacrifices that were performed there went on for centuries as well. An energetic stigma remains where earthquakes and large-scale catastrophes occur. For this reason, we must seek out that which is positive. Iguacu falls is one of these places. People sense energy unconsciously; they have no lucid notion of this. Iguacu Falls is considered to be the third largest commercial market in the world, after Hong Kong and Miami. It has every type of mafia – even the Chinese mafia, which is one of the most difficult to encounter. Including the borders to three different countries, it has a population of millions of visitors – with only 214,000 permanent residents. The greatest advantage of this place is its geo-energy, or Earth energy, the chakra and the hydric energy together with a green ambiance. Anyone who understands energy and focuses on his or her mentalsoma (non-physical body of discernment), gains a greater potentiality. This is a point of convergence for our work. It is a place that needs a university and a school. For these reasons, we are creating a center of higher studies, on the level of a university campus; a perfect environment for one to perform research.

What is the clarification task?

WV. My existential program (life purpose) is the clarification task. I already knew this due to my intermissive courses. These are courses that one takes before entering a new physical body. They orient one to their existential program. I have never had any doubt in this respect. My responsibility, from the point of view of this life, is greate. When I was studying, almost no one could go to school. I completed two university degrees – medicine and dentistry. Later, I specialized in various areas in schools abroad. The clarification task is a serious intellectual responsibility. That is why I collected my library.

Did you become interested in the out-of-body experience after the conclusion of your courses?

WV. No. I still have notes that I made in notebooks, from as early as seventeen years of age. Before this time, the phenomenon was called lucid unfolding of consciousness.

Are leaving the body, receiving spirits and mediumistic channeling the same thing?

WV. No. They are all different. When I was fourteen years old, I made an analysis of all psychic phenomena in order to decide which I would research. At this time, I already had a library of more than 1,200 works, in five languages. I had two hundred and twenty names of different phenomena including clairvoyance, elongation, and spontaneous vegetation. I considered the out-of-body experience (OBE) to be the most important phenomenon, as being one which I had experienced since nine years of age. All other phenomena became secondary, by comparison, given that there are 54 basic phenomena that are involved within OBE or conscious projection. Psychophony or vocal channeling, for example, is a condition wherein another consciousness is manipulating or dominating a sensitive, to a certain degree. It is a temporary semi-possession, and can be benign or pathological.

Is this positive or negative?

WV. It depends on how you approach it. Individuals do not always have “nice” guardian angels. There are evolutionary technicians, extraphysical spiritual beings who help those who give others high quality help. It doesn’t do any good to help in an egocentric manner. To only help your family is not help; it is extended egotism. Help needs to be universalist, poly-karmic (ample, anonymous) and open-handed. One must not await compensation for deeds performed. We can not keep wishing for the gratitude of others. We must help with the understanding that evolution is accomplished through interconsciential assistance. There is no other way. You send yourself out and eventually come back to yourself. There are very few people who execute the universalist process. When the Catholic church initiates a follower, it uses the catechism, brainwashing and dogma; this is not cosmoethical (the cosmoethic is a transcendent level of ethics). Every religion that has its own God, who is greater than all other gods, is folly.

Regarding intrusion…

WV. Intrusion. An intruder is that consciousness which tries to influence someone due to his or her energetic deficiency. This person may or may not understand about intrusion. Either way, he or she suffers the consequences. Almost 100% of humanity suffers from intrusion, whether it lasts five minutes, five hours, five weeks or five years. The symptoms include irritation, altered thought processes, sleepiness, nightmares, “burn-out” and an attack upon the individual’s point of least energetic resistance. Illness, imbalance, disturbances, and great conflict are a result of energetic alterations. These negative consciousnesses do not have bad intentions: they are simply desirous, in lack, and in need of energy. They are psychotic post-mortems (individuals who have passed through biological death but remain disoriented in the extraphysical dimension).

Would a negative consciousness be an intruder?

WV. Yes. More than half of the population have spirit guides that we consider to be part of the “so-so group”. These are amoral consciousnesses who are capable of killing five persons in order to promote the one they like. Thus, they could do the same with you on another occasion. Do you understand?


WV. Only a micro-minority of the world’s population of five billion six hundred and fifty million persons have evolutionary technicians. Evolutionary technicians are extraphysical consciousnesses who have cosmoethic, know-how that allows them to help in a balanced manner. They have overcome their own limitations. They may be at the same evolutionary level as the one they are helping but, as they are using an extraphysical body that is more evolved and more subtle, they are in a better position than we are. Only those who are aware of the performance of the clarification task have greater evolutionary technicians. The others receive help of a secondary quality.

The consolation task can be likened to making someone feel better?

WV. Its trickery. You remove the discomfort, but the problem remains.

Generally speaking, religions instill fear and repress individuals, creating a state of internal conflict for some, and a condition of ambiguity for others. Nevertheless, human beings remain religious. Regardless of the discrepancy, they continue praying. How do you see the future of religions?

WV. There will be no religion whatsoever. One religion will not prevail over the others. The slightly more mature individual, with a little more discernment, will reach the conclusion that he or she cannot be loyal to a doctrine; cannot believe in anything or anyone. We need to have our personal experience. It is important to perform our personal experimentation in terms of our evolutionary process, and religions do not permit this. They give one a package of ideas to be swallowed. If you do not, you are considered a dissident or a heretic. These religions call themselves universalist, but they are the same as clubs, or political parties: you are either in or out. Even in the Gospel, you will find: “he who is not for me is against me”. This is anti-fraternal. The cosmoethic urges mega-brotherhood or maxi-fraternity. We need to have this attitude with others: to understand them as much as possible.

What is the difference between the dictionary definition of consciousness and the use of the word in your research?

WV. The sense of the word consciousness that we use is a broader one; the concept, significance and acceptance, for example, of a being as an entire personality. You as your body, energy, emotion and ideas. Even your mentalsoma.

What is the mentalsoma?

WV. It is the mental body, the (non-physical) body of discernment. For example: everyone has goodwill or good intentions, but they do not have discernment. The majority have no discernment at all; this is existential “robotization”. There are opinion makers and leaders who command these individuals who do not think for themselves. We live in a pathological society, regardless of the country. We live in a huge infirmary. This planet is an enormous hospital; a hospital-school. We need to recover from our illnesses and become capable of giving aid in this hospital. This is our path, in a general manner of speaking. We have to have a broad, global vision. Outside the body, we are not citizens of any country, we are citizens of the cosmos. Thus, consciousness is a soul that is spirit when embodied, but is also a disembodied spirit. Your consciential micro-universe is a reflection of the reality of the cosmos.

The peace pipe of the Indians, lysergic acid (LSD), other drugs, herbs used in diverse religions, the special vine used in Saint Daime, provoke a state of extra-sensory perception. What is the similarity between the use of these and your out-of-body experience (OBE) technique?

WV. There are many methods for leaving the body, and their various consequences and effects – either positive or pathological. The majority of Near-Death Experiences are not good as they are forced experiences. All hypnosis is negative, as it subjugates the individual and has a brainwashing effect, placing a yoke upon the consciousness. A consciousness must be free in order to manifest and express itself freely. This our greatest wealth; to feel and think what we wish, and do things in accordance with these feelings and ideas. Saint Daime is totally negative. It contains scopolamine and other substances that provoke hepatitis. Some individuals are so predisposed to projection (OBE) that a simple sneeze can provoke one. Sometimes a person can project while meditating; this is not the ideal, because, in meditation, one goes within; it is a centripetal process. What is of interest is a centrifugal process – where the individual leaves his or her center in order to assist others through projection. We have to eliminate our egoism. For example: Orientalism is generally very egocentric. I have attended to many yoga teachers who did not know what to do when their child was suffering from intrusion. They do not know how to leave their body. They never thought about performing an exorcism, or a deintrusion of an ill person.

Hold on. A yoga teacher that has been working with yoga for thirty years…

WV. That’s right. He or she is completely involved in her or his own energy process, teaching everyone. But he or she is not able to leave the body in order to provide assistance, because Orientalism only considers personal effort, the individual’s powers. Consider India, for example. They have been performing yoga for five thousand years. India maintains a horrible caste system. Why have they not changed? Why don’t they examine this? They assist others without clarifying anything. So, someone arrives and announces that he is a god, and fools everyone. This is an example of the consolation task.

And your research shows itself to be different than this approach?

WV. Obviously. Completely. For example: when one leaves their body on their own, there is no pathological intrusion involved. You have to leave your body without thinking about tomorrow or waiting for a telephone call. You cannot be thinking about anything else. You have to leave your body in a manner that is clean, healthy and balanced.

What are the dimensions reached by departures provoked through the use of hallucinogens, drugs, herbs, etc.?

WV. One might have all manner of experiences, but these are not trustworthy. This type of experience does not allow one to develop. The phenomenon has existed since ancient times. Initiations used this method. They were full of conditioning, dogmas, and sophism. It was utilized in both occultism and esoterism. This no longer exists. We live in an era of openness; one of exoterism. It used to be prohibited to say that you were leaving your body. Rumors circulated of the projector risking death through the rupture of the silver cord (energetic connection between bodies). In this manner, information could be maintained within a circle of initiates. Why? To allow the leaders of the time to manipulate other consciousnesses. All theology is based on manipulation.

For many years, cinema and television have shown the existence of life on other planets. More and more, people are coming to believe that we are not alone in the universe, and that there is life after death. What is the difference between the world of spirits and other planetary worlds?

WV. The basic difference is that there is an infinite variety of extraphysical dimensions. Here in the United States, it is commonly held that one can arrive at a fifth heaven or a sixth dimension. This is nonsense. The different dimensions are created internally. Everything is made up of thought-forms. Consciousness is much more than energy; much more than matter; much more than this planet. For example: no one on this planet is a terrestrial; everyone is an extraterrestrial. Consciousness was not created on this planet. We are all much older than this planet. Individuals are constantly coming to Earth through interplanetary migration and many are leaving this planet for others, non-stop. It has always been this way.

This transference to other planets occurs through death?

WV. I am referring to extraphysical consciousnesses who have passed through the first death or that have discarded their physical body. This is not a physical process. The physical process is what is being targeted within the next century. They are going to blend in to cultures of other planets that are already here. From an extraphysical (non-physical) point of view, when you leave the body and are able to expand your consciousness, you are able to see those who are constantly coming and going.

Extraphysical community?

WV. There are many planets equal to, better than and worse than Earth, from an evolutionary point of view.

Does the use of the term extraphysical imply that one has passed through the process of death?

WV. I am referring to their spiritual plane. Our plane is physical. There is an extraphysical dimension. This does not mean that it is not occurring in the physical dimension.

In your thirty years of research how have you separated religion and science, and how would you compare them?

WV. There is no similarity between the two and we can never hope for there to be any. We cannot expect anything of religion, because it commands through what we call the abdominal brain or “belly brain”. We cannot, for example, expect a mother to be rational in regards to her child. It is difficult for a mother to judge her own son. She will never admit to the possibility that an intruder has come from her womb. She will always think that he or she is destined to be the country’s president. Motherhood is an inevitably instinctual situation. The majority of illuminating elements of humanity use this belly brain. It is an illogical brain. It is in use by those who say they are using intuition and inspiration. This brain neither reasons, ponders, nor has discernment. It has a lot of goodwill and good intention. Psychiatric hospitals are full of these individuals – the unthinking masses. The Institute works with a micro-minority that is mature enough to understand this relative truth, because absolute truth does not exist. We do not impose our ideas. Nor do we want to convince anyone regarding the issues we address. We inform. You can use this information or discard it. We also have no interest in popularizing this leading-edge relative truth, as the clarification task is beginning to be established on Earth. We are aiming for a greater service; no one understood this before. If you look for this throughout history, you will not find it – not even in the time of ancient Greece. I challenge anyone to contradict the theory of interconsciential assistance, the consolation task and the clarification task. I have been speaking about this for over thirty years. No one has been able to disprove it. The facts support the theories. Where did I learn about this? Leaving the body, visiting extraphysical communities and bringing it back here. There are 16 comparisons between the clarification and consolation tasks. Those individuals involved with the Institute are going against the flow.

Against religions?

WV. It is not against religions. We don’t want to waste time with that. When you leave the body, you begin to recall past-lives and the fact that you were loyal to these religions. But what is it to be loyal to something? It is to be penitent regarding that thing you are doing, sometimes with great sincerity. But dogs are loyal too; someone puts a collar on it and… The Catholic church is telling everyone to not use the condom. Have you thought about that? This is all a matter of dogma. The churches that are surviving are doing so because they are using brainwashing. The Catholic church is using a charismatic approach and the Assembly of God is performing exorcisms. All this is a psychic approach, used in order to survive. We have to aim for something greater, beyond the New Age. This is all a fad, and will pass.

But you do not include yourself in this?

WV. No. I began far before this, and we will continue far beyond all of it. There is always a saint that is in fashion: we have had pyramids, crystals…

But, if instinct does not fit within the New Age…

WV. We also do not align ourselves with materialist science. We have another path. It is the path of clarification and discernment. We work with science, but our science is (based on) the consciential paradigm. It has nothing to do with the atheist, revolutionist, Lutheran, Cartesian paradigm. Get out of your body and see for yourself. The materialist is the blindest person that exists. Suicide is the biggest frustration that exists. Do you want to kill a consciousness? Consciousness is immortal. It is so easy to do away with a body, but you are not your body. The first thing we say to people is to first of all have a good relationship with yourself, in order to be able to be with others. If you are not even able to look yourself in the mirror, how are you going to help others who want to evolve? People have to know how to live with themselves. You have to begin with self-mastery. Do away with dependencies and crutches: all of these sacred objects, personalities and animals. At the Institute, we have nothing that can be considered sacred. It doesn’t work to make someone a guru. Our work is less sympathetic and more difficult. What we need most is to study…

Why do people have a need for religion?

WV. Everyone is silly and in lack. After someone enters the Institute, they change, and are no longer in lack.

Does one stop praying? How can that be?

WV. Prayer is the greatest nonsense. Who are you calling out for? You can work with the same energy without saying a word. I worked with the Spiritist Federation until after I was thirty. I saw all of this, tried to change it and, when I saw that I could not, I left. Look, I was president of the Federation; I had everything in the palm of my hand. Then I went to Rio de Janeiro. I didn’t even have enough money to buy a newspaper, so I would read it at the newsstand. I started over from nothing. I borrowed money so I could open my clinic. I started a new life…

What are you trying to say?

WV. I am trying to say that this, the clarification task, is not easy. I could not try to please everyone. But all of these difficulties were worth it because, with time, people began to appear. For this reason, the Institute is a success.

You gave up religion; let go of everything?

WV. Not only religion. This is about leading-edge relative truths.

Do you mean to say that you lost all of your money as a result of abandoning religion?

WV. By abandoning the entire process. People usually abandon money to enter into religion. This is not right. It is correct to abandon everything, and put money and religion in second place. You must have self-confidence and make decisions. What are our greatest capacities? There are three basic ones: will power; intention; discipline or organization. You master your own energy through the use of these powers.

Encounters with extraterrestrials and interplanetary travel; we are obviously not talking about NASA here. Is it a reality for some, or just sensationalistic conversation? Is society prepared for this?

WV. Regardless of whether society is prepared for it or not, I think it is idle chatter. When something has to happen it will happen. We are living in the age of serenism. The new era – not the New Age – is the era of discernment. The Earth, sooner or later, has to move towards discernment and a global state, from a political point of view. Everything is moving in this direction. So let’s not debate over whether the Earth is ready for this, because it is.

But, do these voyages really exist? Do people really make these contacts?

WV. Yes, they do exist. However, 95% of what is said regarding ufology is nonsense, imagination, madness and delirium; only 5% being real. Within this 5%, there are pathological and healthy individuals. It is important to study the basis of the matter. Now, upon leaving the body, you will see that these things do exist.

Do you mean that these trips and contacts with extraterrestrials…

WV. They (extraterrestrials) are able to hypnotize individuals, taking energy from them…

So they do come here?

WV. Yes, they do. The planets have contact with each other; the more evolved, the better. The more one masters energy, the more contact is possible.

Those persons who have reported their voyages in the newspapers…

WV. These are the individuals who are considered to have been abducted or kidnapped. Many years ago, I studied about these persons in depth. The most interesting point about them is that when they return from their experience, you can feel a strong charge of energy that they have, up to thirteen feet away. Sometimes, even after five years, you can “see” energy around their head. This implies that these individuals had their energetic process altered, or rather, their holochakra (energy body) was affected.

Reliable individuals, who were in the mountains of Petropolis (outside of Rio de Janeiro), reported seeing an unidentified flying object in full daylight. The object was brown and came to within sixteen feet of them. It rapidly changed into various geometric forms. They said it was not made of metal or anything metallic in nature.

WV. This is extraphysical. Extraphysical objects can have a lower percentage of physicality than our physical objects, which are dense. I saw this on Cantagalo hill, in Ipanema.

But, society is not prepared for this.

WV. Yes it is. In the last two hundred years, humanity has evolved in the way that it has had to; more than in all previous millenniums. This is the general consensus. The Institute and conventional sciences all admit this.

Is this arising out of our coming to the year 2000?

WV. It isn’t arising out of anything. This nonsense about another planet coming to swallow the Earth is the biggest farce I have heard since 1950.

But the year 2000 is not going to have an influence…

WV. Why is this notion about the third millennium nonsense? Because, for us it will be the year 2000; for the Israelites…


WV. You can see how silly it is. Do you think that the consciousnesses who are more evolved than we are, who are supervising us, are going to adhere to the human calendar?

Do you mean to say that there is no truth to the rumor that the world is going to end?

WV. This story has to do with marketing and commercial interests. But, many individuals will die, many will commit suicide, because at the end of any millennium and century, a great deal of nonsense, trauma and other issues occur.

But why?

WV. Because people are crazy! Have you reflected on the unthinking masses who know nothing?!

But, isn’t there a cosmic influence?

WV. You create the cosmic influence. But, there are various influences: the sun, the moon, even plants – all of which influence our lives.

The age of Aquarius has no effect?

WV. No. It is all nonsense. Nowadays, it is admitted that astrology is human society’s favorite lie.

It does not have even a little truth to it?

WV. No. Everyone in science knows this.

What about information?

WV. Information does not need this. Through your own psychic capacities you can know everything, without using tarot cards, etc. You have to have self-confidence. Even the professionals in these areas do not have confidence in themselves. I have participated in esoteric fairs, alternative therapy, ufology… and I saw that these professionals are still not prioritizing their will and intention in order to master their own energy.

What about pendulums and medallions used by some contemporary Japanese religions for transmitting cosmic energy?

WV. This is also unnecessary. Sociology currently concludes that one hundred thousand religions have existed throughout the history of humanity.

So, what you are saying is that the predictions of Nostradamus and the Bible – that there would be approximately 100 religions in the year 2000 – agree with each other.

WV. There is some substance in Nostradamus’ predictions; it depends on which ones you are referring to. Some of them are true while some have been customized in order to sell them better. They are open to interpretation, as his centuries are elastic in nature. However, if you were to ask me if he is authentic, I would say he is. He was capable of precognition and saw many serious things. Here in the United States, there is a center of precognition that works with individuals who have had dreams or visions about possible occurrences. The information is put in a computer in order to analyze the coincidences. On one occasion, there were fifty of these coincidences regarding one earthquake.

Are you saying that there is a larger number of sensitives nowadays who, through the support of technology, can confirm the possible veracity of previsions through the use of computers?

WV. Everyone is capable. But what is more important is for one to leave their body and travel to extraphysical communities. In this way, you can converse directly, without an intermediary channel. A medium (channel), for example, is an intermediary, but he or she is obliged to serve in this capacity. The clarification task does not exist without the consolation task.

Who will help those in need? They need someone who is capable.

WV. The person him- or herself.

But, in the beginning, isn’t help important?

WV. Yes, fine. But you can’t have a guru. You cannot depend on anyone. We cannot enslave another with our energy. All gurus say: “I am God. Come adore me.” This is shameful. The masses are unwary and inexperienced. Now, these individuals do not have bad intentions. They simply don’t know the strength of their own energy.

Could you tell us where and when the three greatest experiences you have had in other dimensions occurred?

WV. The most impactful experience happened when I was nine years old and my brother was ill. I left the body, could see his process and he survived. We participated in some extraphysical assistential work regarding a problem he had, which the doctors had misdiagnosed. This was the first one. The other was when I was called upon to have an experience with a type of personality that we call a “free consciousness”. I saw one of these personalities, that Spiritism calls “pure spirit”. This consciousness had already lost its psychosoma (astral body, peri-spirit, second body, emotional body). It is difficult for someone in the human condition to make contact with one of these elevated consciousnesses. I had this experience as a function of my research work. Another very impactful out-of-body experience was when I traveled with a serenissimus who we call Monja. She is a Homo sapiens serenissimus (a consciousness who is experiencing the last in their series of physical lives in the rebirth cycle). She performed assistance by her mere presence. Intruders (ill, meddlesome extraphysical consciousnesses) would not even get close to her, due to her highly evolved nature. She takes care of many things. Serenissimus are universalist. We went many places together.

Where did you go with her?

WV. From a physical point of view, one of the places we went was Asia.

Was she alive or dead?

WV. She was alive at the time, living in Europe. I did not even realize that she was projected. I had projected from Rio de Janeiro.

Did you leave your body on your own?

WV. No, the evolutionary technicians came and helped me out of my body; this is called an assisted projection. In this case, the projection was sponsored in order to allow me to register certain experiences. The beings at Monja’s level have ample liberty of action. It will take us thousands of years to become one of these consciousnesses.

Do they “incarnate”?

WV. That’s the point. These serenissimus are superior to the Mahatmas, the Christs and all these types of personalities. You will not find their names in encyclopedias, as they help anonymously. They work in various dimensions simultaneously and assume a body here as a tool to be used. They are quite superior to extraterrestrials. I have maintained this theory for 30 years. It is irrefutable to this day. To give you some idea, there was a debate held at UNICAMP (a university in São Paulo, Brazil) in order to disprove this theory, and no one could.

The bible mentions the divine spark, which science has translated as cosmic particle. The contemporary Asiatic religions have metaphysical explanations that are sensible for the open-minded individual. They state that mankind was generated from a microscopic particle, originating in the more evolved material dimensions – eventually arriving at the human condition, in the case of planet Earth. God is supposed to be a cosmic consciousness. Do you find this concept acceptable?

WV. No. The idea is great, and this is the direction we have to take our research. But, we are not interested in what comes after serenissimus, or the eternity of the future. We are not going to die. We are eternal. We are more interested in being immediatist. We are interested in the here-and-now. There is only one multi-dimensional way to be free of this physical, animal life that we have. We are only interested in understanding the evolutionary spectrum from the virus up to serenissimus. All of our hypotheses span up to that point.

Where did mankind begin?

WV. This does not matter; it pertains to the eternity of the past, before the virus. If we encounter a serenissiumus, he or she will not have a response. If a flying saucer lands in Central Park, and we ask the same question of the extraterrestrial, he or she also will not know. Perhaps, where he or she comes from, there are not even any serenissimus.

Do you mean to say that extraterrestrials don’t know anything?

WV. No. Technology doesn’t solve anything. They have a non-physical technology that they are trying to use. But the apparatuses that are available do not amount to anything! As long as someone needs an apparatus, they haven’t mastered their energy.

You have made this very clear. We do not need any kind of apparatus in order to reach other dimensions. Through the out-of-body experience we can go to all of these places. Is that right?

WV. Of course! Two forces exist in the universe: one is consciousness, one’s consciential micro-universe; the other is energy. Matter is a secondary derivative of energy; it is worthless. Consciousness is superior to energy. Consciousness is not energy.

But, materialization must occur in order for consciousness to individualize.

WV. This process of materialization is executed by a consciousness that is more evolved than we are. God has nothing to do with this. Everything exists as a result of a primary cause.

Do you mean to say that the theory of microscopic particles is not valid?

WV. No. This is their theory. It does not show that it is the case. This does not explain anything; it is not logical.

Not even within the scope of science?

WV. Not even within the scope of science. Science is just getting started. Matter is not merely what they think it is. I have already written on this matter. I challenged Einstein regarding the velocity of light. It is much greater than what they concluded. My theory was shown to be correct in 1995.

And the formation of animals…

WV. They all appear: plant, sub-human, human and free consciousness. Who imposed this consciential gradient? No one knows. For example, as far as I am concerned, every AIDS virus is already individualized. One is different from the other. It is the same as a drop in the ocean. So, then, the issue of it all having come from, and eventually returning to, a general repository of matter, is a theory – but this doesn’t prove anything.

So then, nobody knows where we originated?

WV. No, and no one is going to find out so soon. We have to stop thinking about this. A few millennia from now, we will have some idea regarding this. We have to be immediatists; to desire the multidimensional. What good does it do to know what came before the virus or what is beyond serenissimus? We need to acquire consciential self-mastery. I want to be free of all this. To be completely self-sufficient. Take off: varooommmm! The same way that serenissimus does.

According to the followers of Saint Germaine – of the violet flame – those who have not been involved in the preservation of the planet will be transferred to another planet. What is your opinion on this matter?

WV. I have already tried to clarify this with them. It is nonsense to say that it will happen in the future. Interplanetary transmigration has always existed. People are always coming and going. If we look at human chronology, this has intensified from 1651 to the present. We have had a population explosion, and it is going to increase even more. In the extraphysical communities that I have observed, it is more-or-less 1995. Science has developed beyond this with the processes of illumination, clarity, the consciential process, technology, and the process of inter-human communication. With the improvement of personal intercommunication, everything intensified. We can see this in our intermissive courses (the course that one undergoes while in the extraphysical dimension, in preparation for the upcoming physical life).

Are the intermissive courses taken while outside the body?

WV. In the period before this physical life – an intermission (between lives). Intermissive courses began to occur in the seventeenth century. What interests us is the mastering our energy, helping others, and heading towards serenism. Philosophy, as it is currently being studied, asks whether the chicken or the egg came first. This is only theory. Examine it closely, from a practical point of view, and you will see that there is no substance to it. So much so, that they say: “Philosophy is something with which or without which you will live in this way or that.” But, on the other hand, philosophy is great. All science must have a philosophical foundation and, in the same manner, it must have a code of ethics. Philosophy is the chief issue in appearance only. The Institute has its philosophy. Our basic philosophy is cosmoethical universalism.

What is cosmoethical universalism?

WV. It is to help others within the clarification task. This task is different from others.

Does that mean that you do not want to be a guru, pope or saint?

WV. No, by no means. First of all, this does not exist. There is no such thing as a saint.

The church is opening. There is a woman in New Jersey who has assumed the role of a priest, and is a declared lesbian.

WV. But look, if one is not able to master the adjustment of his or her consciential genetics, how can he or she master the other bodies…

What is para-genetics?

WV. Para-genetics is… everyone is born with knowledge. The more evolved we are, the more we influence the inheritance that we have. There are two types of inheritance: one is genetic and the other is social. They are both influenced by our para-genetics. Or rather, the more you influence, the greater the mastery. This explains precocity. Everyone is a genius. We need to look for our own abilities. It is also important to understand that we do not have a singular intelligence, but dozens, as we also have various memories and egos. Now, we need to amplify our intelligences. For example: someone who is triply talented can simultaneously be very capable in the areas of intellectuality, psychic capacities and communicability. This person is a multiple genius. Serenissimus are able to achieve this with their hands tied behind their back.

What do you see in terms of the future of the planet and humanity?

WV. We are thinking more and more. The Earth has never been so good. We have never had a physical life on this planet like it is today, with all the evolutionary possibilities that exist. Today, in one week you will meet as many people as you would have encountered in a lifetime of fifty years during the Middle Ages. There has never been so much evolution on this planet…

But, what about the wars and pollution?

WV. That is not relevant; the population increased. It was terrible before. A few centuries ago we lived in closed communities, surrounded by artillery. Cities did not communicate with each other. All of Europe was like that, before America, full of walls and fences, some of which are still standing. Nowadays, we are able to live in a condominium for twenty years and people don’t put each others’ eyes out. There is a small minority of individuals that is great! I am totally optimistic about things. They can meddle with hydrogen, atomic and neutron bombs, and they will not destroy the planet or humanity. They can kill millions of people in minutes, and sometimes it is necessary. Nature itself does this, through catastrophes, inundations and earthquakes. It is a natural process. I think that we will leave to colonize other nearby planets. We will have exchanges; we do not know when. With the interplanetary process it is inevitable.

Will this occur in the near or distant future?

WV. No one knows. You are all here to find out. I will be in another life, preparing myself. I want to go to China; there are more individuals to work with. The population there is ten times greater than that of Brazil, and more than six times that of the United States. Today, it is approaching one billion three million persons.

Do you mean that the future of the planet and humanity…

WV. It is the best; positive; benign. Our convalescence in this hospital is certain. But, when will we be released? A few millenniums from now. Here is a warning for the reader: you do not need to believe in what I am saying. It is best to ponder, reflect, see the logic, discernment and the rationality in my words. I am a bald man with a white beard. I could be senile. Stay alert!

(laughing) This is your message? I don’t believe it.

WV. I am here as a merchant of my own illiterate ignorance. I am studying the most evolved, important and serious issue of human life. You and I. Who are you? Who am I? None of us know who we are. Consciousness is the most difficult thing to understand. Psychology studies personality; the most obscure area that can be addressed in psychology. Medicine and psychiatry are studying the psyche; the most occult area of medicine.

Which is worse: lobotomy or drugs?

WV. Drugs. When I go to hospitals to give energy treatments, I do not work with people while they are standing up. They fall, as they are so fragile, altered and in lack.

And alcohol?

WV. It is the worst. There is a medicine that, when taken over four months, turns the patient into a vegetable. There are artists who ask me to accompany them to functions in order to transmit energy. They think they are creative, but they aren’t anymore. They are in a vegetative process and are repeating what they already know. Marijuana, and all drugs eliminate a person’s creativity and sexuality; it is a brutal process. Nobody takes only one type of drug. With time, they mix them all: alcohol, cocaine, marijuana, crack and heroin, that kills quickly. Here in New York I knew many people in the ‘80s, and almost all of them are dead

But, a social drink, a glass of wine?

WV. This is not a problem; even I do this. The problem is alcoholism. Cigarettes and coffee create addictions; they are negative habits.

What positive message can you give to the reader?

WV. Be confident in yourself and your potentialities. You are greater than you think. You have various intelligences and memories, and you can change your ego. Don’t do anything you don’t want to do, as long as you do not act against the rights of others. You are not in this world in order to suffer. Religion likes suffering and sells it to others. Do not continue to do work that you are against, that you do not like and with which you feel uncomfortable and unsatisfied. Change your life for the better. This is the most important attitude to have. You are not your body, but a consciousness that masters the energy of the mentalsoma. Have confidence in your strength. Goodwill and good intention are not enough. Be discerning. Perceive the difference between that which is true and false. Stay true to that which is intelligent; forget that which is outdated. Control your consciential micro-universe and be determined that you are going to be progressively more centered, have greater self-mastery, feel better, and help others and yourself much more.

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  1. Andrew C Donovan

What you have in your mind?